SniperCentral

[JCinPA]

OK, I've posted about this issue with a Savage 10FP, TPS one-piece base and TPS rings before with a Mueller 4-16X50 AO scope. The scope was hard up against the left windage stop to shoot to POA. Some suggested sending the scope back to Mueller, and I'm glad I did not do that yet. I confirmed it is not the Mueller (at least not totally) by mounting a Bushnell Elite 3200 10X40 on it and rezeroing the rifle. I did lap the rings with a Wheeler Engineering lapping kit from Midway in the meantime, even though TPS swears it is not necessary, and that may have helped a bit. But I'm still not satisfied with where I am right now. Here are the numbers.

Total windage clicks available: 268
Clicks from right stop to mechanical center: 134
Clicks from right stop to POI @ 100 yds: 206
Percentage total clicks from right stop to POI: 76.9%
Percentage total clicks from left stop to POI: 23.1%

I realize this is a budget rifle, and it is the first scoped rifle I've ever owned, so I don't know if this is considered normal or not. Pre-ring lapping, with the Mueller I was all the way left, used up 100% of available left windage to get to POI. Now I'm just 23% off the left stop. I don't expect it to be perfectly centered, there are tolerances in the action holes, in the base, and in the scope to add together, and maybe this is normal.

But I'd hope to get the thing to shoot between 40% and 60% off the left stop. In other words I wouldn't complain if I lost 20% of my windage in either direction (10% of total adjustment) given the price of the rig. But losing 54% of my available left windage (72 clicks out of 134 clicks from center to either side) seems a bit off. What do you guys think?

And what are the fixes? The rifle came to me with a two piece Redfield-type base and the rear ring has some windage adjustment to it. Chucking the TPS base & Rings in favor of the original setup may be my cheapest route, and I can DIY that. Anything trying to realign the TPS Base and action is not something I'd be comfortable doing, I'd send it to a smith for that, and that would be my buddy Larry on the forum here.

What do you all think of this situation? The rifle is a terrific shooter. I'm not a high-speed-low-drag guy, either. I'm just a middle aged, married fat guy who shoots at the range to get some quality 'alone time', so I'm not going to sink a ton of dough into this.

Thanks in advance for your observations and suggestions.
_________________

[ekaphoto]

Sounds like the hols in the action are off. Hard to tell for sure without seeing the rifle in person. Here are your options as I see it.

Call Savage and see what they will do.

Have a gunsmaith do someting.

Use Leupold bases that have adjustment in the bases.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=785660

Use weaver bases with the weaver type rings that you can do some adjustment with.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=374342

Now, what are you going to do with the rifle? For hunting as is will probably be fine because you usually dont adjust your windage once you are sighted in. Usually you just adjust elevation if that.
_________________
John

1.Humans are more important than Hardware.

2.Quality is better than Quantity.

3.Special Operations Forces cannot be mass produced.

4.Competent Special Operations Forces cannot be created after emergencies occur.

[JCinPA]

I think I'll go with the original 2-piece base set, that should do it most cheaply.

What do you normally expect in terms of alignment from a budget rig like this? I'd think better than I'm getting?

Edit: Nope, just looked at the original base/rings. They are Leupold and they are junk, believe it or not. I read a review of it on Midway and looked at my rear ring, and found out they are not machined right and they can shear off the pieces on the rear ring that mount it to the base. Sure enough, I can see mine did not fit properly, and metal has been shorn off. They are junk.

So, can I use those Millett rings with my current base which is pointing slighting right? How do I adjust them so they do not put stress on the scope? Can you tell me how to mount them and adujust them?

Thansk.
_________________

[oneeyedmac]

I was thinking about suggesting a mount with some built in windage adjustment when I got to the part where you already have that. That would be the route I'd take first. Lap the rings.

If you are set on using a tactical style mount I tap the receiver for 8x40 screws. They are a little larger and we'd try to tap on the centerline of the receiver if the current holes aren't too far off.

[JCinPA]

Larry, you may not have seen that I tossed my original base/rings. They were damaged, and apparently not a good product (Surprising for Leupold!).

I can't figure out how to use those Millet rings to adjust for that much windage problem, I'm going to PM you to arrange to have this fixed. I'm 72 clicks off. Granted, I cannot tell how well the Bushnell crosshairs are centered, mechanically speaking, there are lots of errors adding up here, but 72 clicks off, divided by 4 (for 1/4 MOA clicks), means I'm pointing 18 MOA to the right. No matter how you cut it, that's a bunch, and it's out of my range of skills to deal with it.

Watch for PM.
_________________

[oneeyedmac]

Gotcha, glad to help.
_________________
www.excorioprecisionarms.com
Bubba's Hunt Shop

[Brainz]

Get a Leupold 20moa base with windage adjustments. You'll be able to set your windage knobs in the center and use the base screws to center the scope. I use that paticular base on my Rem. 700.
And, yes it seems that most Remington rifles are having this problem with reciever holes not being square.
Anyway, I've never had to touch my scope since putting the Leupold base on. I'd say it's going on 2 years. Zero stays the same, except when I change ammo.

B

[JCinPA]

Brainz, can you post a link to that specific product?

The 2 piece base I had was windage adjustable but it nearly sheared off the attachment points on the rear ring. Same complaint from users at MidwayUSA.com.

If you are talking about a different product, I'd like to see a link to it. Thanks!
_________________

[Brainz]

I actually got mine from a gunshop here in Indiana. I don't have a link to go by. I can tell you Leupold calls it "STD long-range RH-SA (1 piece)". The part # in there catalog is part #51734.
Hope that help's you out
If I can find more info I'll post it. I'm sure someone here has some spots you can go to.

B

[marvin_lr30]

The biggest problem I have seen with the rear rings on leupold/redfield bases is that the windage screws are tightened way to tight, ,sometimes the ring base isnt flat on the mounting base and that can cauase the lips to bend . I have a heavy 6x24 scope with 30mm tube on my Howa 1500 and no problems after 4 yrs and hundreds of rounds, I have several base sets where the edges of the adjustment screws are bent, simply too much torgue, but this is just my opinion for what thats worth.

[Rob01]

Find a smith to true up your base holes with the bore and open them to 8-40. It will take care of the misalignment problem. No need to buy different scope, rings or bases.
_________________
http://www.teamblaster.net

[JCinPA]

Sounds like good advice, Rob. I think that would be Larry.
_________________

[Rob01]

Had a similar problem with my .308 although not as extreme. Truing the holes took care of it. Also send him the base so that he can open the base holes to 8-40s too and install new screws.
_________________
http://www.teamblaster.net

[JCinPA]

I'll send the whole thing and let him remount it.
_________________