SniperCentral

rbick · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 2:20 pm Post subject: Extra gun = Cool idea

Hey everybody,

I just recently ordered a new custom .308 rifle through Excorio Precision Arms. It should be ready by the time I get back from the Middle East. This leaves my old .308 just kind of sitting there, and I probably won't be shooting it much. Thus, I have come up with a super cool idea and am in the preliminary stages of planning. I'm probably making this sound way cooler than it actually is, but here is my idea:

My old rifle is a Savage 10FP sitting on a choat folding stock. It has a 20'' barrel with 1:12 twists. Although cheap, it has been a good rifle off the shelf, shooting 1 MOA or better. I even got it down to 1/2 MOA with some hand loads a few times. Here is a picture of it.

So what I was going to do is shorten the barrel as much as possible. I'm thinking between 16-18 inches. This would leave a very minimal space between the end of the barrel and the stock, which is what I want. I would have the barrel threaded for a suppressor. During this process, I would get the paper work started through my local class III dealer, where I actually use to work. I'm looking at a YHM that allow quick detatch with their flash hiders. YHMs are probably the cheaper way to go, but I've worked with them before and have been pleased with their performance. As for optics, I would probably take that stupid Bushnell 5-15x off and replace it with my Leupold MR/T 1.5-5x optic.

With the ability to detatch the suppressor quickly and collapse the stock, I could shrink this rig down to about 20-24 inches over all length (with suppressor detatched of course) within seconds. This could fit into a relatively small back pack or case. It would be great for taking on wilderness hikes or traveling. Using subsonic ammo, which I describe later, I would probably only use this rig to shoot out to 400 yards.

As for ammo, I was thinking about using primarily subsonic. With that said, I would probably be launching 200gr+ bullets with the highest BC I can find via some titegroup or clays powder. I have some past experience loading subsonic 30 cal ammo, although usually for the .300 whisper instead of a .308. Question is; Will a short barrel like this with 1:12 twist be sufficient to spin this heavy of a round? Let me know what you guys think about this, along with the entire idea in general. Don't be afraid to criticize or tell me its the dumbest idea ever. Thanks guys Very Happy

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The tragedy of modern war is that the young men die fighting each other - instead of their real enemies back home in the capitals.

nismophreek · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 502 Location: Virginia

I don't know if the speed will play into it but usually the max you can spin out of a 1:12 is the 168-175. I may be totally WAY off base though.
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Now a proud owner of a Larry McElroy built Savage. Stockade Stock. WoTac 4-14. 20" McGowen Bbl. Harris Bipod. Duracoated and cammied out!!!

ekaphoto · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 3:34 pm Post subject:

I don't think the 1:12 will stabilize the 200 gr bullet. I like the concept however. Since you are spending the money why not just get your rifle rebarreled with a 1:10 twist with the short barrel as stated above. If you want to keep the barrel IMR has reload data for subsonic rounds using trail boss on their website.
_________________
John

1.Humans are more important than Hardware.

2.Quality is better than Quantity.

3.Special Operations Forces cannot be mass produced.

4.Competent Special Operations Forces cannot be created after emergencies occur.

wild1 · Joined: 24 Aug 2009 Posts: 96 Location: Edm, Alberta

Exactly. With the spin off barrel get a new one made. You could sell your old one for a few bucks too.

nismophreek · Joined: 18 Apr 2009 Posts: 502 Location: Virginia

Are you sure that is a 1:12 barrel? I thought Savage used 1:10 on their 10 FP rifles.

_________________
Now a proud owner of a Larry McElroy built Savage. Stockade Stock. WoTac 4-14. 20" McGowen Bbl. Harris Bipod. Duracoated and cammied out!!!

JG1978 · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 4:29 pm Post subject:

I have been thinking about a build a lot like this mostly due to the hunting conditions that we have around where I live. Some times you have so much brush around that a long rifle is really difficult to use because of the brush and others you have 6 to 7 hundred yards of open ground. I was trying to figure out a good platform to use that would work in both situations but I thought that if I could build a more of a scout rifle for the brush it would be better. Carrying 2 rifles wouldn't be an issue as I generally have to carry a pack on these hunts. What you are looking to build here sounds a lot like what I would be building but without the can. Sounds like a good one.
_________________
"I was in my own little world, I wasn't even aware of a lot of the rounds impacting near my position, because I was concentrating so hard on making sure my rounds were on target." unknown Marine in Afghanistan

rbick · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:32 am Post subject:

nismophreek: You solved my problem. I don't know why I was thinking 1:12, but once you mentioned it something clicked. Thanks for the correction. I'm gonna talk with my smith and see what would be the best option; Rebarreling or shortening the current barrel. I've only put about 2000 rounds through the current one so I don't see why keeping it would be a problem. But there could be unforseen reasons I'm not yet aware of?

JG1978: Using this as a brush gun was part of my reasoning too, along with making a ninja stealth type weapon you can stuff in a backpack. If you decide to go with this particular rifle for a similar project, beware of the weight. The Choate stock and heavy barrel make a hefty package. Sawing off 4'' of barrel will help I'm sure, but it still will probably weigh quite a bit. So while it may make a great scout rifle, be ready to carry the weight along with it.

Thanks everyone for your suggestions. I just got to make some phone calls back to the states to make this start happening Very Happy

. Any more input would be greatly appreciated.
_________________
The tragedy of modern war is that the young men die fighting each other - instead of their real enemies back home in the capitals.

ekaphoto · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 3:44 am Post subject:

If the current barrel shoots good keep it. On the other hand if you have the $$ and you are itching to spend it, have the gunsmith blueprint your action and put on a nice barrel on it. I look forward to hearing how this one turns out.
_________________
John

1.Humans are more important than Hardware.

2.Quality is better than Quantity.

3.Special Operations Forces cannot be mass produced.

4.Competent Special Operations Forces cannot be created after emergencies occur.

JG1978 · Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:22 am Post subject:

TheSkew · Joined: 08 Feb 2007 Posts: 25 Location: Indiana

The only other folding stock that I'm aware of is from pdc custom.
http://pdccustom.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=2&products_id=37

I'm not sure what the Choate weighs and if this would be any lighter but it is listed at 5 pounds on the page.
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"Heavy is good, heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work you can always hit them with it."

JG1978 · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:05 am Post subject:

does anyone have any info or opinions on the mcree's precision modular system

http://www.mcreesprecision.net/
_________________
"I was in my own little world, I wasn't even aware of a lot of the rounds impacting near my position, because I was concentrating so hard on making sure my rounds were on target." unknown Marine in Afghanistan

JG1978 · Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2009 1:54 am Post subject:

rbick

It would seem that since the rifle is going to be used for a brush crashing short range offhand rifle the bipod would be more of a hindrance than anything taking that off would drop some unneeded weight from the rifle. I have just been trying to figure out how to cut more weight off the rifle. If I am not wrong (if I am someone please correct me) with the stock folded the rifle would be right around 28 inches long. It would seem like we are trying to build an ar without the moving parts.
_________________
"I was in my own little world, I wasn't even aware of a lot of the rounds impacting near my position, because I was concentrating so hard on making sure my rounds were on target." unknown Marine in Afghanistan

MOA · Joined: 29 Jul 2005 Posts: 318 Location: Kansas

I wish someone mad a Bulpup stock for these rifles. that would give you the short length with a fixed stock. Seems to me that anything that can break will break when rough hunting/field work.

JG1978 · Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2009 12:26 am Post subject:

yeah I have been worried about that too. It is going to end up a fairly expensive test I guess although che-tac uses a stock similar the mcree's stocks and their rifles are pretty rugged. one would hope that a stock that costs $800+ could take some punishment but who knows. If I do end up doing this build I am sure that everyone here will be updated on how it works.
_________________
"I was in my own little world, I wasn't even aware of a lot of the rounds impacting near my position, because I was concentrating so hard on making sure my rounds were on target." unknown Marine in Afghanistan

Arrow 4 · Joined: 06 Nov 2009 Posts: 27 Location: Bush Valley

If you are considering putting a suppressor on a precision rifle, you really need to look at the SureFire 762SS. There is no more accurate suppressor on the market. With the quick detach system you can go from unsupressed to suppresed and back again with no or minimal shift in POA/POI. This would be particularly important if you are considering using it for hunting, as most states do not allow hunting with suppressed weapons.
The SureFire is more expensive than just about any other can on the market, but their suppressors truly have no peer.